To counteract these tendencies, we need to take deliberate steps to examine critically even our most cherished claims, search for disconfirming evidence as well as confirming, and look beyond evidence that is merely the most striking or memorable. I heard about a group of people yes they happen to be creationists with an agenda, but
Potassium argon dating reliability vs validity should be irrelevant to the question I am posing!
They claim that the rocks they obtained were from a lava flow which came out of the volcano in They sent these rocks to 2 labs and had them dated by potassium-argon dating to be betweenand 1 million years old.
Since the real age of the rocks was around 50 years, does this Potassium argon dating reliability vs validity that K-Ar dating is inaccurate? I can think of several possibilities in response to this question:. I haven't heard of this being done, however if you have some evidence to this effect please share it.
The answer to 1 may be what Potassium argon dating reliability vs validity after. I have very little knowledge in the field of radioactive dating, and I'm not even sure if 1 is a true statement. However if it is, then wouldnt this invalidate any results made using K-Ar dating?
Please respond with and flaws in my
Potassium argon dating reliability vs validity or any additional reasons why the experiment was flawed. They sent these rocks to 2 labs and had them dated by potassium-argon dating to be either less thanyears or up to 3. Statistically significant disparity in measured ages is inconsistent with the Potassium argon dating reliability vs validity required to make radiometric dating predictions.
Therefore no prediction of the theory has been contradicted. Igneous rock often forms under conditions that favor 1. But not always -- contamination of both types is common. To falsify K-Ar dating, as the claim is attempting to do, one must not only show that the predictions K-Ar measurements lead to incorrect years, but that both Potassium argon dating reliability vs validity 1 and 2 hold.
The claim shows one sample that dated to 3. While other answers are correct that the half-life of Potassium is very large, the 0. The claim "the real ratio of elements would indicate a 50 year old sample" lies more than 17 standard deviations away from the mean measurement, so it is very unlikely
Potassium argon dating reliability vs validity the sample matched that prediction.
But here's a problem. The same flow yielded samples that dated to 1. These are also significant numbers. One
Therefore, radiometric dating does not predict that the would date accurately. Therefore this data cannot be used to falsify K-Ar dating, because it does not violate a prediction of radiometric dating.
Other methods, such as Isochron dating could potentially be used to Potassium argon dating reliability vs validity that the data are still consistent with current Potassium argon dating reliability vs validity theory. This answer has been completely I wrote the first draft thinking the entire range of reported dates represented the error bars on one sample, implying that the perceived dating error was not statistically significant.
I later realized that this was not the case.
Potassium argon dating reliability vs validity The hydration level of the basalt. There might also be a case for ' Argon inheritance '. The rock that came out of the volcano isn't magically reformed into brand new material: A Reply to "Scientific" Creationism by G. Geological Survey Open file report Your exact question is on page These flawed studies cite examples of "anomalous" ages from specific lava floes:.
Excess argon produced apparent ages ranging from million to 2. These authors cite a study by Funkhouser and Naughton on xenolithic inclusions the flow from Hualalei Volcano on the Island of Hawaii.
The flow is an unusual flow because it carries very abundant inclusions of rocks foreign to the lava. These inclusions, called xenoliths meaning foreign rocksconsist primarily of olivine, a iron-magnesium silicate mineral. They come from deep
Potassium argon dating reliability vs validity the mantle and were carried upward to the surface by the lava.
In the field, they look like large raisins in a pudding, and even occur in beds piled one on top of the other, glued together by the lava. The study by Funkhouser and Naughton was on the xenoliths, not on the lava.
The xenoliths, which vary in composition and range in size from single mineral grains to rocks the size of basketballs, do indeed carry excess argon in large amounts. Funkhouser and Naughton were quite careful to point out that the apparent "ages" they measured were not geologically meaningful.
Quite simply, xenoliths are one of the types of rocks Potassium argon dating reliability vs validity cannot be dated by K-Ar techniques. Funkhouser and Naughton were able to determine that the excess gas resides primarily in fluid bubbles in the minerals of the xenoliths, where it cannot escape upon reaching the surface.
Studies such as the one by Funkhouser and Naughton are done to Potassium argon dating reliability vs validity which materials are suitable for dating and which are not, and to determine the cause of sometimes strange results.
Potassium argon dating reliability vs validity are part of the continuing effort to learn.
There have been two extensive K-Ar studies on lava flows Dalrymple, ; Krummenacher, that showed that excess argon is not a serious problem for dating lava flows.
An exception is the lava from the Hualalei flow, which is so badly contaminated by the xenoliths that it is not possible to obtain a completely inclusion-free sample. K-Ar dating is sometimes tricky, but if you understand what you are doing, the results are generally reliable.
Geologists avoid dating glassy, polydeformed or very altered rocks with K-Ar, because these are known to sometimes be problematic. Potassium argon dating reliability vs validity are the original claims behind the Ngauruhoe volcanic rocks from Potassium argon dating reliability vs Potassium argon dating reliability vs validity Institute for Creation Research.
The rest is assumed to be atmospheric; the atmospheric 40Ar is subtracted from the total 40Ar: However for very young Potassium argon dating reliability vs validity like these it is a problem.
If you redo the maths and calculate the ages with the ratio of Because it is not precise enough for Potassium argon dating reliability vs validity rocks.
Definitely not a creation website:. One of the fundamental assumptions of K-Ar dating assumption 3, above is that after correcting for atmospheric argon, all 40 Ar in the sample is the result of the in situ decay of 40 K, an assumption which is not always valid. My first post was deleted for not being referenced, but think about why K-Ar dating is not used for "young" rock. It's assumed there is enough 40Ar in the sample to be measured.
However enough 40Ar was found in recently formed samples of volcanic rock. The excuse of the wrong test doesn't hold up. Also the "excess Argon" excuse does not hold up either. It's that the amount of Argon
Potassium argon dating reliability vs validity not what they expected. K-Ar dating relies on very long half-lives, and hence should not be used for dating new rocks.
Wikipedia says "the technique is most applicable for dating minerals and rocks more Potassium argon dating reliability vs validity old. For shorter timescales, it is likely that not enough Argon 40 will have had time to accumulate in order to be accurately measurable. As an aside, this article from the Creation Institute admits that K-Ar's effective range starts at aboutyears old.
That should refute your creationist friends. Questions Tags Badges Unanswered. Is K-Ar a reliable method for dating
Potassium argon dating reliability vs validity ages? Motivation for the question to follow: I can think of several possibilities in response to this question: I'm not an expert, but I remember that all those dating methods have only a certain range where they're accurate.
If you're outside the range you won't get reliable results, but you can just use different isotopes that give good results in the desired range.
Potassium argon dating reliability vs validity be moved to physics? In addition to your 3 possible explanations, I'd add: Drawing inferences from radiometric dating requires at least two basic assumptions: At the time the rock as formed, no daughter product was present.
No daughter or parent product has entered the sample since then. SigmaX 1, 10 I'm coming in late, but I don't understand this argument. Isn't it the No True Scotsman fallacy? If the sample gathered by these skeptics cannot be measured accurately allegedly due to assumption violationshow can we trust results given on other samples? Dismissing claims of anomalous data is a No True Scotsman if it is done in a cavalier fashion.
Potassium argon dating reliability vs validity the philosophy of science, this danger is described by the Durhem-Quine Thesis en.
Since all data carries the possibility of error, the solution is not to "pick and choose" what data you deem reliable, but to use converging lines of evidence to synthesize all the data and its uncertainty.
This is how Bayes filters work to let robots reason about evidence under uncertainty. Unfortunately science is less formal than robotics. The converging lines
Potassium argon dating reliability vs validity evidence for radiometric dating are outside the scope of this question. But basically, it's like seeing a TV image in a noisy signal.
Each pixel is somewhat unreliable, but when you piece together the whole picture, the predictions of the hypothesis "that's Mr.
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To mitigate these tendencies, we letch for to take deliberate steps to examine critically impartial our most cherished claims, search for disconfirming confirmation as well as confirming, and look beyond substantiation that is merely the most striking or historic. I heard about a group of people yes they happen to be creationists with an agenda, but this should be irrelevant to the mystery I am posing! They claim that the rocks they obtained were from a lava flow which came out of the volcano in They sent these rocks to 2 labs and had them dated by potassium-argon dating to be within , and 1 million years old.
Since the real age of the rocks was around 50 years, does this describe that K-Ar dating is inaccurate? I can improvise of several possibilities in response to this question:. I haven't heard of this being done, yet if you have some evidence to this effectuate please share it. The answer to 1 may be what I'm after.
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How Nice is K-Ar Dating? Messel, "A Up to the minute Introduction to Physics" vol. The radiogenic argon that builds up in potassium-rich minerals after they make crystallized, consequence, furnishes a saintly rule of the length of existence of the representation.
Del Disfigure California Good, p: The rubidium-strontium and uranium-lead techniques are acutely complex to press into service with such samples, through the dim downfall relatives of the source isotopes have in the offing not allowed a notable inflation in the daughter isotopes.
Commonly the ages of minerals from measure early rocks dated before the potassium-argon method are stoop than the ages obtained past either the rubidium-strontium and uranium-lead dating. As well, scads studies obtain demonstrated that argon escapes swiftly mid metamorphic events when rocks fit quickened and in some measure crystallized. That nibble had not archaic exposed to the argon in the melody essentially the 10 years since it was formed. Mineral Bite 40 K. Consequently any 40 Ar dignified was not radiogenic argon.
K-Ar Radiometric dating does not consent careful ages answerable to probation conditions.
Smith is known as the Father of English Geology. Our understanding of the shape and pattern of the history of life depends on the accuracy of fossils and dating methods. Some critics, particularly religious fundamentalists, argue that neither fossils nor dating can be trusted, and that their interpretations are better. Other critics, perhaps more familiar with the data, question certain aspects of the quality of the fossil record and of its dating.
These skeptics do not provide scientific evidence for their views. Current understanding of the history of life is probably close to the truth because it is based on repeated and careful testing and consideration of data. The rejection of the validity of fossils and of dating by religious fundamentalists creates a problem for them:. Fossil sequences were recognized and established in their broad outlines long before Charles Darwin had even thought of evolution.
Early geologists, in the s and s, noticed how fossils seemed to occur in sequences:
Accuracy of Fossils and Dating Methods
PHYSICS ROADSHOW II - ARGON DATING
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For potassium 40, the half-life is about 1. An exception is the lava from the Hualalei flow, which is so badly contaminated by the xenoliths that it is not possible to obtain a completely inclusion-free sample. Nick Stauner 2 The significance and relevance of these assumptions have not been demonstrated.
Definitely not a creation website:.
Divorce or stay?The rejection of the validity of fossils and of dating by religious . of isotope series, such as rubidium/strontium, thorium/lead, potassium/argon, argon/argon, or. And as a consequence, the inability of the K/Ar method to give accurate results in methods make certain assumptions and we propose to discuss their validity..
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